FINISHED FILE

ITU DCAD CONFERENCE CALL
FRIDAY, 18 MAY 2018
7:00 A.M. CT

		
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	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  Hi, everybody.  I am going to tell you all who is on because it's easier, and we only have one hour, so anyway, welcome.  Anthony Giannoumis -- I will let him say his name when he comes on; Ashwini Sathnur; we have Kaoru on, she is the DCAD secretary; Gunela; and Judith Hellerstein.  We are expecting a couple more people, so we may be doing some backtracking.  We will give you a copy of the captioning because the captioning is not working in the separate link at the moment.  
	Heather is our captioner, and she's got the spellings of the names of the people, so give her a minute, especially those with long names starting with G and ending with S, Anthony, can type it in so she's -- I think she has probably programmed you.  
	Okay.  Now, Anthony, you can hear.  Let's test your sound.  (Audio echoing) 
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: Hello.  This is Anthony.  Can you hear me?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Yep.  Ashwini.  Can we test your sound?  Right.  Are you going to just type?  Okay.  Can you turn off Ashwini's microphone, please.  There you go.  Okay.  All right.  Ashwini, you are going to type.  Okay.  
	Gunela, you can hear okay.  Can you speak?  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Yes, I can hear perfectly well, and I can speak, hopefully, and everyone can hear me.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Perfect.  
	Oh, Eleonora is on.  Eleonora.  Can you hear us?  Maybe not in a minute.  Okay.  Let me type to her.  Are you going to type to her?  I can hear somebody typing.  Judith, you can hear us; right?  Okay.  
	>> STEPHAN: You should be able to speak now.  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Can you hear me?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Yes, we can.  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Thank you.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: And Judith, you can hear us.  Judith, I heard you speak, so you will speak when you want to speak.  If you look at the top, we've got something called Raise your hand.  Is that working, Stephan?  
	>> STEPHAN: It's working.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: All right.  When you want to speak, raise your hand, put the status there, and that way -- it's at the very top next to the microphone, and then I can recognize you.  
	Okay.  Right.  All right.  We've got an agenda.  
	Oh, Shadi's on.  Yay!  Shadi Abou-Zahra, can you hear me?   Can you speak?  Is Shadi on?  Shadi, can you speak?  
	>> STEPHAN: He should be able to speak.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Unmute yourself.  Is there something wrong with his?  Shadi has muted himself.  Why is he muting himself?  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Because of background noise.  Hi, Andrea.  Can you hear me?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I can hear you.  As long as I can hear you, and if you need to speak, I want you to do the raise your hand.  We are going to try to do this properly.  Okay.  Has everybody got their agenda in front?  Do I need to read it out for anyone who has a vision problem?  Because Gerry is not going to be with us.  Otherwise I would read it.  Anyway, I will sort of read it as we go.  
	All right.  Basically, number one is a review on what happened last time, a report on our meeting last time, which then was backed up afterwards by Gunela's workshop.  And other than the fact that we had great difficulty with remote participants in a tiny room and only one screen, does anybody have any comments about that negatively or positively?  So if you want to say something about it, please do now.  Or how we can improve.  Who is raising their hand?  Anybody?  Nobody wants to make a comment.  Shadi, no?  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Yes.  So I recall it was a really good meeting with good discussions.  I think it was good that we had two related and well-coordinated themes that kind of addressed accessibility from different angles.  I think both thematically, but I think also the speakers.  I think we had people like Vint Cerf, Paul Timers, and several other people I think had good discussions there.  So I recall it was a success yesterday -- (loud noise) 
	Okay.  Not sure what that was.  The room was, as you were saying, a little bit filled so that was a little bit difficult to kind of move around and get by, but overall I think it was quite a good meeting.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: So basically, Shadi, what you are saying, that your main comment was wheelchair access in a room that was entirely too small for that, and also you remember that we did have some peculiar situations of registering, and that wasn't well organized either, and we had to fend for ourselves.  Gunela was with us.  
	And Lidia Best is on the line, and Lidia, can you speak so we can test your sound?  
	(Distorted audio) 
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Lidia, there's lots of background noise in your thing.  Are you using a mobile?  
	>> STEPHAN: I turned her microphone off.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I know you did.  You want to type your response?  Because there's background noise.  Lidia is typing.  In quiet room.  How strange.  Wait a second.  Judith, I see your hand up.  I know you have time limitations, but we have to get this stuff sorted out.  
	Lidia, I want you to try one more time.  Otherwise, if there's too much background noise, we are going to have to do text.  
	(Audio echoing) 
	Now, why am I echoing?  
	Thank you for your email, Gunela.  We don't have time to look at the toolkit.  Will you have to explain that.  At this moment.  Lidia, can you just fend with typing and looking at the captioning for the moment?  And the other person, I think, Judith, what did you want to say?  Judith, your hand is up.  What would you like to say?  
	>> JUDITH HELLERSTEIN: Yeah, so I remember we also had a lot of problems with speakers (?) not able to get on, and some of our other leaders not able to get on because of WebEx issues.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Right.  The WebEx issues.  That's correct.  We did have WebEx issues, and Gerry couldn't get on either.  
	>> JUDITH HELLERSTEIN:  Right.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Why am I echoing?  
	>> STEPHAN: We can't have Judith's microphone open and you speaking at the same time because it causes an echo.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you for your explanation.  I will mute myself when I ask someone to speak.  
	All right.  Gunela, what I want to do, Gunela has typed I'd be happy to explain the content for the workshop proposal.  We'll get there in a minute.  We are going to get there.  The general information from the IGF Secretariat.  We have on the phone, we have Eleonora Mazzucchi, who is the IGF Secretariat, and we asked her to talk to us.  That's why we put what happened the last time in front to see how we are going to handle that, and I asked her to talk about a couple of things.  Could we do that, and then we'll go to the workshop proposal?  Is that okay, Eleonora?  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Hi, Andrea, hi, everyone, it's Eleonora.  Yes, that's fine by me.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Go ahead, please.  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: So I will just start with a short update or a little bit of information on the IGF venue because I think that's on a lot of prospective participants' minds with good reason, and so I will just say that we have two scenarios we are looking at currently, the Secretariat and the MAG Chair.  One is in Europe at a UN venue and will be in November from 11 to 15 November specifically.  And the other would be, again, at a UN venue or, you know, a UN office, a UN structure in Asia in December from 10 to 14 December.  So even though that doesn't provide a lot of relief, it maybe gives a little bit of specificity to people who are looking to block dates in their calendars, and we can say that no matter what, it's going to be one of those two sets of dates.  And not to commit ourselves to a timeframe necessarily, but we are hopeful that we will be able to make an announcement on the definitive venue and dates within the next two weeks before the next virtual MAG meeting, and we hope maybe before the deadline for workshop proposals is up, which is fairly soon.  But I don't want to promise any of that, but that's what we are aiming to do, in any case.  
	And I also just wanted to note that, from the Secretariat's side, we heard, you know, loud and clear the feedback from our last meeting that was here in Geneva in December 2017 and the disappointment of not just participants with disabilities or advocates for persons with disabilities, but of participants in general on really some of the accessibility deficiencies.  And as was said many times by DCAD, measures that are taken to make things more accessible for persons with disabilities wind up helping everyone.  This ended up being the case in India when we had IGF 2006.  There were tons of volunteers, all these great students at the venue, who were very helpful to persons with accessibility needs but really wound up being just very helpful in general to all the participants who were getting lost, who needed to be steered in some way or another.  And the feedback that we got from our meeting last year, definitely everyone, all the participants, including participants with disabilities, definitely said they missed having that.  So we take note of that.  Of course, we are a bit resource constrained, and that is like the ideal thing for us to have too, but it really showed us how helpful having a group of volunteers like that can be to everyone who comes to the meeting.  
	And even though we don't have a final venue yet and we don't know who the staff we will be working with is yet, we are trying to put in some early requests for accessibility focal points in both of these possible venues.  We don't even know yet if they have accessibility focal points, to be perfectly honest, but this is really just to emphasize that the issue is very much on our minds, and our objective is to do better this year.  
	And I will share just a couple of notes on the program this year, as Andrea also requested this -- or rather on the programmatic preparations because we don't really have a full program yet.  And what the plan is on the Secretariat and MAG side, and we also hope it's clear that -- to you and others and the idea of community that the Secretariat and MAG are making all the necessary preparations for the meeting as usual, despite these venue setbacks, and we are actually very thankful to those in the community who have been contributing to those efforts by giving input into our public processes and working on our inter-sessional activities, despite this kind of question mark over date and location.  It also goes without saying that DCAD's work, for instance, is continuous and would take place regardless of an annual meeting.  
	So we are making some changes to the program approach this year based on feedback we got during our annual stock taking, which we open at the end of 2017 and then kind of look at at the beginning of 2018 to influence or to help us shape the program for 2018.  And in that stock-taking feedback that we got, the community asked us to have a much more cohesive and focused meeting program.  So we are taking a more thematic tact this year, which I think will be more apparent when we release a schedule later in the year.  But for now, the effectiveness for people who may be proposing workshops, for instance, like yourselves, is that you will see that you will be asked to choose from eight predefined themes in the workshop proposal form.  
	I won't go through all the other, frankly, small changes that you will see in the workshop form.  Really, it's very much the same as last year's except for this theme selection.  And I'll only say that you should try as much as possible as proposers to make your proposal diverse in terms of the organizers or organizing team and the speakers you list.  And by diverse, we mean diverse -- we mean diversity as regards gender, regional, and stakeholder groups primarily.  And it's worth mentioning because the MAG will be looking at that factor closely this year.  
	For any other questions or for any questions or doubts about the workshops process, I will be here on this call to address them as they arise too, so please, yeah, be assured I will be listening to you as you talk about your proposal, and if there is, you know, some procedural doubt, I'd be happy to help clear it up.  
	Sorry.  Does anyone have any questions right now that they really want to ask?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I need to kind of make things kind of short.  Judith has asked a question or two, and she's identified in her mind some locations, and I have just said that you are not going to reveal them at this point.  And also has said something to the effect any chance of the dates being changed?  And I said probably not.  But if there are going to be any date changes with the venue being announced, you will tell us as soon as possible, and I am sure that is correct.  
	She's concerned about the Plenipot of the ITU being too close to one of the locations at the same time.  So I don't know if you know that.  And Gunela, I see you there.  I don't think this meeting was to deal with the dates of IGF and location at this moment.  Now, Gunela wants to talk about venue accessibility, which I also think is important.  So can vanilla -- I just called you vanilla, Gunela -- do you mind if we ask Gunela to state what she wants to talk about?  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Of course, please.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Go ahead, Gunela.  Can you unmute Gunela?  
	>> STEPHAN: She is unmuted.  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Hi.  This is Gunela for the record.  
	Yes, thanks Andrea.  I just wanted to discuss the importance of accessibility in a physical sense to the venue, no matter where it is.  From a personal perspective, I have a mobility impairment which was extremely worse at the Geneva meeting, and it was very difficult because of the weather conditions, apart from anything else, to get from the checkpoint walking a reasonably steep slope down to the front entrance, and I got fantastic help from Andrea and Kaoru, but that was individual help, and it shouldn't have to be like that for anyone who has a physical disability or any other disability.  They should just be able to state what the accessibility needs are, and regardless of security, which I realize is very important, but there needs to be something in place to take people from any security checkpoints to the front entrance where hopefully everything would be in place.  So I am hoping with whatever venue is decided that that would be planned for.  Thank you.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Gunela.  And there will be a copy of all that you have said, and Eleonora will take this back to her people, and it will be noted.  And we have also gotten together and spoken about these things together with Chengetai, so we are aware.  It is dependent on where the actual location is.  
	Now, there is a problem in the location that Judith Hellerstein has said regarding the ITU Plenipot, that if it's in a certain location, we are not going to be able to get there because the location of the Plenipot is in Dubai.  And the dates are very close -- frankly, I don't even know when the dates of the Plenipot are.  But I will make a point of making that known to Eleonora, but I don't want to spend time on this right now.  
	Does anybody else have any questions or comments for Eleonora?  
	Thank you very much, Eleonora, for giving us that information, and I appreciate that.  I want -- we don't have a lot of time, so I want to move on -- oh, Judith says it overlaps with the last week of Plenipot.  Okay.  I will make a point of making -- the DCAD will send a liaison to IGF stating that fact for whatever date this is, that it's in Dubai and it overlaps with the ITU Plenipot, which would be difficult, then, for some of us at the ITU to attend.  And I think Eleonora has taken that back.  
	Gunela is typing something.  Eleonora, are you able to read the Chat box?  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Hi, everyone.  Yes, I am.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: So I don't have to read to anybody the Chat box, just point it out.  Okay.  Can you take that back to Chengetai?  
	Kaoru, what are the dates for Plenipot?  Can you say it again, please?  
	>> I am checking the exact date, but I think it will last three weeks from end of October to 16th of November, something like this.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  So there is a conflict.  
	All right, Judith, okay, you are going off for 15 minutes.  I see that.  Okay.  
	So Eleonora, I think that is a very, very big event, the ITU event is the election year this year.  It is when the elected officials are elected.  And that happens towards the end.  Can you take that message back?  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Hi, Andrea.  I typed this into the Chat too.  We are aware of this unfortunate conflict, and you know, we are trying to think creatively about how to minimize it as much as possible.  So Chengetai is aware too, but definitely I will take that back to him in terms of, you know, us noting all the corners from which we are getting comments about this conflict, and it helps give us a sense of how many people are affected by it.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Well, I would be affected.  Kaoru would be affected.  Judith would be affected.  I don't know about everybody else.  Everybody is dispensable, but thank you.  I am glad you have taken note of that.  And now I am going to move on.  We do want to hear -- Gunela has a workshop proposal, so I am going to -- and she's got one.  So please, Gunela, would you like to -- we are going to move to that location.  We have Gerry's suggested title, but there is a comment I want to make about that.  But I want to hear what Gunela has.  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Okay.  Shall I start speaking?  
	And thank you, Eleonora.  
	>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Thank you.  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Thank you, Eleonora.  
	Yes, this is Gunela for the record, and in terms of a workshop proposal, we have Gerry Ellis's suggestion of a title, which I think is great.  
	One idea for the content is to connect personal stories of accessibility and how they relate to international programs, policies, and legislation.  We have heard, I think, from Deirdre and others about legislation and its importance and why I sent some of you a link to the ISOC accessibility toolkit was in relation to this connection.  And for example, there's an idea from Bangladesh where I put together some key international policies and instruments, obviously CRPD, the SDGs, public procurement, W3C, et cetera, et cetera.  And how they are taken up and used in a particular country and examples from particular countries.  So that refers, then, to the title about 1.2 billion reasons to make technology accessible.  So to me, that's a way of making particular high-level instruments with regard to legislation and regulation understandable how they are used in various countries, and we can do case studies from that.  And that's what I have done in that toolkit.  
	So I just think that that could be a way of bringing the message strongly forward.  So that's part of my suggestion for the content for the workshop proposal.  Thank you.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: All right.  I am going to speak.  Thank you very much, Gunela.  
	The actual title deals with technology, not with procurement, not with -- I mean, we do know that when a country procures something and it's accessible, it does leaps and bounds of wonderful things, but the problem is that's a very wide subject.  There are many countries, and we are not -- we don't have a representative of each country.  So that is an idea, but to actually put it into implementation, I was hoping you were going to come across with something you were going to do.  So how would you do this as a workshop?  What would your presentation be about?  Using that idea, what would you talk about?  And can you give me a possible scenario where you would turn your presentation -- 
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Using that idea would be because we are talking about -- okay -- the possibility -- yes.  So what way consider is that we are looking at a roundtable where we would encourage discussion.  So we could start off by -- if, for example, I was to be part of the workshop panel, to give the high level about yes, we know we have a CRPD.  We have this, we have this, we have this.  We know it amongst our group.  We are hoping to attract people who may not know about this and to say how that is actually used in various countries.  And obviously, we can't have a large number of countries there, but the case of (?) from Bangladesh, he was actually at the IGF in Geneva, and one would (audio fading in and out) maybe he could come to the next one and really give a presentation about how his country is working on some of those things.  So it can combines the high level, and I can certainly talk about other countries that are implementing.  I can talk about Australia, for example.  But to have somebody from another country talk about it from their perspective too.  That, I think, would be a great combination.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Well, there's a little bit of a problem in actually guaranteeing that.  We do all like the idea of the roundtable from some of the emails that I have been getting, but you have no control over what's going to be said or no control over who is going to attend.  
	What I need is if you want to do a presentation -- and I think everybody has to give something rather than have it too loose and too wide because there's a danger of nonparticipation on the level that we want.  So I am not sure if this is the way forward.  A roundtable, in my view, is having people give perhaps on that subject matter, but again, the technology aspect is in that title, so we might have to come up with another title.  And the idea that we have to produce today is a title or something close to a title, which we might be able to adjust, and a scenario or basically an abstract.  That's what we are required to do for the 25th, to discuss whether the roundtable is also going to be important to put in there.  
	But unless I hear -- I need to hear from what the others think.  Let me just see.  Eleonora has written something which I am going to read.  Do not want to interrupt the flow of the agenda, just a quick note from the Secretariat and the Dynamic Coalition coordination facilitators.  We have shared on the general DC mailing list a template for submission form for the DCs to use to make their IGF 2018 session requests.  As DCAD members, you are invited to make edits or comments.  Thank you.  All right.  We will do that later.  
	But now, any case, I thought it had to do with what we were talking about.  So I am not putting the kibosh because I am only one person, and as you know, it's open.  But if you are going to use Gerry's, we have -- there is something that Kaoru and I were discussing today.  This 1.2 billion refers to people who are already persons with disabilities, both temporary and full-time forever disabilities.  But Kaoru and I were talking about people who don't realize that at any moment in time -- and this happened to you with your foot -- you could become a person with a disability.  Now, those are physical disabilities, and IGF is the Internet Governance Forum, and it's about Internet access.  And it's about accessibility to services, facilities, to paying your taxes.  Everything is going on the line.  And we've kind of moved another level, Gunela.  So what I am thinking is the technology aspect is extremely important because even now I cannot get somebody on the phone to help me very easily if I don't understand the instructions with my dyslexia for solving my email problem, which happened to happen today, but I did -- I did manage.  
	So the point was are we going to follow the technology accessible idea, or are you going to go into government and policy and accessibility in another area?  Because then we would have to have a different title.  And we may not come up with a full-blown perfect title this time.  We may have to do some email correspondence.  
	I wanted to get Shadi's input, and I am hoping Shadi will make a comment because he is my absolute wonderboy because he has a physical disability, and he works in accessibility for people with disabilities so they have access to print.  So he's living proof of being able to function in society as a person with a disability for persons with disabilities.  So Shadi, can you please come in on this conversation and give me your view?  Because I always value it.  Open Shadi.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Thank you for your kind words, Andrea.  
	Can I just ask the meeting organizer not to unmute me.  I will mute and unmute myself in the future.  Thank you.  I appreciate the help.  Just you might unmute me at a bad moment.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: You are unmuted.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: I know, I know, I was unmuted by somebody else, and I am asking that not to be the case.  
	Anyway, so thanks, Andrea.  I really think that the approach that Gunela is proposing I think is really interesting, and I think we should pursue that.  I think one of the big issues with accessibility is that for many people it's abstract and not really understandable, not tangible.  And so it becomes kind of this scary, distant topic; whereas, providing, I think, these stories and making it personal, making it human and living, I think makes it much more understandable for people.  I certainly see that with developers who, when we present the actual people who are impacted by accessibility barriers and how it really impacts people's lives, I think a light bulb very often goes off, and they can understand why all this fuss is about.  They also understand the additional benefits it has on others, and it really becomes a personal and closer matter.  
	So I think this is a good angle to pursue.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  Thank you.  Can you unmute everybody, please?  Because who is muting everybody?  
	>> STEPHAN: I am taking care of that.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Don't mute Shadi, don't mute Gunela.  Don't mute Eleonora.  That will do.  Okay?  Now, the only thing is Lidia has said she would like to make a comment.  Lidia, go ahead and speak.  We expect hear you, Lidia.  Can you speak?  Okay.  Oh, Lidia is typing.  I am speaking.  We can't hear Lidia, Stephan.  
	>> STEPHAN: Her microphone is open.  
	>> LIDIA BEST: Your microphone is open, he says.  Something is not right I don't know quite what we can do at this point.  Lidia, I heard you before.  Are you using a headset with a microphone?  Or a microphone?  Okay.  Shadi, what were you typing?  Lidia, I am going to -- go.  Speak.  I heard you.  Lidia said she will type.  Okay.  
	Could you not mute Shadi Abou-Zahra, please.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Andrea, I will mute and unmute myself.  That's fine.  Yeah.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: All right.  Okay.  What did you want to say?  You had something else you were typing.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Nothing.  Just that clarification.  I wasn't advocating that anybody gets muted or unmuted.  I was just advocating that unless somebody asks for help, don't change their settings.  So sorry.  That was a side comment.  I don't want it to take too much time.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you.  Okay.  So now I know you are doing yourself here.  That's fine.  Okay.  
	Lidia's typing.  Lidia, do short sentences.  
	So far, we have not gotten very far in getting a title that works in the same way that Gerry has put from what I understand from what Gerry has put to what Gunela has put.  Gunela, have you got a title that we can augment Gerry's title?  Because Gerry's title does not fit with personal experiences, in my mind.  If you can clear that up for me, that would be helpful.  Because I think technology -- 
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Okay.  I am winging this.  I am just thinking it could be ... it could be linking international programs with case studies.  Not very exciting, but I am sure I can fine-tune it.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I just lost everything.  Wait a minute.  Lidia's writing something.  While you are looking, Lidia said my suggestion to look at different angles of the title, with the title.  Yesterday, Microsoft did a great presentation about access.  The exclusion can be a permanent disability.  Temporary, accident, yes.  Okay.  This is what Kaoru and I were talking about also, Lidia.  Or situational (I don't want to disturb the baby sleeping.) So mainstream accessibility.  Now Gunela is typing.  
	Let me just say we are agreed at doing it as a roundtable.  At least we have one thing we can put down while everybody is doing that.  Because we are happy to put that in.  
	So mainstreaming disability is what -- linking -- mainstreaming disability.  And Gunela -- and I am reading these out so the captioner can take note.  So linking international accessibility policy with country case studies.  That's an interesting concept.  Okay that could be a title in itself for a workshop.  We are not deciding, though.  We are still -- okay.  Now, Ashwini.  Okay.  Ashwini Sathnur -- and if I am not pronouncing your name correctly, I am sorry.  One suggestion would be to introduce the concept of accessibility into all sectors by utilizing applied research findings.  That's an idea.  Okay.  And you mentioned personal experiences.  Who wants to talk about their personal experience of being a person with a disability?  We could do that.  I mean, I know who has what disability.  So Gunela, do you want to speak about your disability?  Shadi, do you want to speak about your disability?  Lidia, do you want to speak about your disability?  I talk too much.  That's my disability.  
	(Laughter) 
	So basically, Lidia said yes.  Lidia is typing.  Because if we go on that theme and we alter Gerry's title, not to just be technology but add in policy and awareness into that.  Now, Kaoru and I were also talking this morning -- we do that from time to time -- we were saying if you up the ante, instead of saying 1.2 billion, and you said -- you know, because anybody can have a disability at any given time.  7 billion people -- 7 billion reasons for taking accessibility into account.  In other words, instead of saying the 1.2, we want everybody can be a person with a disability at some time in their life, and especially when they get old.  And that was kind of where that was happening.  
	And by the way, everybody, I now have a hearing aid.  So I have just entered age-related disabilities.  So that was what Kaoru was talking about with me this morning.  And I think maybe if we use that number -- and I want opinions -- 7 billion reasons for taking accessibility into account.  Disability can affect anyone and everyone at some point in their life.  
	Oh, yes, Shadi is saying -- okay.  Now we've got some things I am going to read.  Okay.  Right.  Lidia said yes.  I am not sure what she said yes too.  Also knowing what is available.  What do you know, when you don't know?  Shadi is saying yes, but depending on location, date, and funding to get there.  Which means you will do that if we can get you there.  Don't worry.  I always find money.  Don't worry.  If it's in Paris, it isn't a problem.  Right?  Because that was the guess that Judith had.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Correct.  Europe would be easy.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I think Europe would be easy for us Europeans, it might not be easy for other people.  The other guess was Bangkok.  That's the other thing.  Everybody is subject to funding.  I have some bad news for everybody.  There is no funding in the ITU for fellowships to go to IGF at this moment in time.  Because IGF, the funding that -- unless I go to Malcolm and ask for money that's from there, but there is no funding available for travel.  The policy regarding IGF has changed slightly, and because the T Sector is where it's located, its funding must go to standardization.  So we don't actually have funding at the moment, but it doesn't mean that it's impossible.  But okay.  
	Now, there's more.  Everybody is saying everybody would request funding.  In which case, it's really almost a no because I can't favor one over another person, and I can't fund everybody.  
	The motto about awareness of what is available, this is very low in the hard of hearing community.  Yes, I would agree with that.  Okay.  So Lidia's specialty being that Lidia knows that community very well -- and those of you who don't know Lidia, Lidia is the vice chair of the European Federation of the Hard of Hearing.  So Lidia's specialty is there.  
	Shadi, you would be talking about your personal experience -- well, we've had some fun personal experiences traveling all over the world together and getting you into certain venues, if you will remember.  What would you talk about as your personal experience?  Are you there, Shadi?  Go ahead.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Yeah, sorry.  
	I mean, speaking personally would certainly be from the physical access perspective, and as you said, there are several stories, some funny, some less funny, to share.  I think it will also depend on who the other speakers are so that it's really complementary and we are not repeating the same stories or the same kind of angles or situations.  But I can think of a million from trying to enter a meeting or trying to get on a podium or, you know, all sorts of barriers that get in the way from actually participating and contributing to -- well, to collaboration on whatever subject matter.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Well, I remember some, and they were funny and not so funny.  That's okay.  This is a suggestion.  I am taking all that you say, and I am going to try and make some sense of it.  We've got ten minutes.  One, I am going to take what everybody has given me, and over the weekend, I am going to write some ideas.  Gunela, quickly, what would you write about your personal experience?  Because -- or personal experiences of people that you wish to discuss, that you have some personal attachment to.  Because I mean, I don't want to put anybody on the spot.  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Okay.  I can certainly -- no, no, that's perfectly fine.  I can certainly talk about from physical accessibility, like what happened in Geneva, and but to me, that is -- yeah, I suppose I'd rather talk about maybe some wider issues that people who are attending the workshop can grab hold of when it comes to technology and in regard to accessibility and how policy and programs can make a difference on a wider scale.  And I can certainly talk about my experiences in Pacific Island countries, and some in Australia as well.  
	So I would say if we are going to look at some personal perspective, it should just be a small part of a workshop where we can, you know, talk about the funny and not-so-funny aspects to personalize it and people say oh, goodness, we never thought of that.  But it's only a small part, and then we get into the actual impact that each little incident has, and if you have broader accessibility with that policy and regulation behind us, it would mean that society would be more accessible, and of course, it would mean that the Internet is more accessibility to facilitate anyone with a disability being able to participate fully in society.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Well, okay.  Again, I think that message we have been putting out for quite some time.  We need to do something slightly different.  You basically wanted to start with a roundtable with people talking about personal experiences.  Now we are back into policy again.  Policy is very difficult to advise countries to do it because they don't do it.  Unless you have a law, it doesn't happen.  And that's a tricky area.  Raising awareness does work because a lot of people don't know what it's like to be a person with disabilities.  And I don't know.  I've got to share this with you.  I am going to read this.  You might be able to see it, but for the captioner so she can write it down.  This is Shadi Abou-Zahra, and this also is for Gerry who is not on the meeting, so I am reading what you are saying.  And I am going to read Lidia's too.  
	I recall dashing through the Hyderabad airport with Fernando Bothello, who happens to be blind, by the way -- I was his ears and he was my muscles.  I mean, basically, and how we were freaking out all the security staff there.  And there was that film that was done by two comedians called See No Evil, Hear No Evil, where there was a blind man and a deaf man together.  Now, that is funny, and yet it's not.  I just saw that in a video store the other day.  We are actually nowhere near getting a format together at the moment.  Kaoru, how much time do we have 
	>> KAORU MIZUNO: We have 30.minutes.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: We have 30 minutes.  Wow, okay, you did get an hour and a half.  We are fine at the moment.  
	There is a person who has been speaking.  I do want to read what Lidia has typed.  I have great advocacy video -- hang on.  It just moved.  Somebody typed and I have lost it.  Just a minute.  Wait a minute.  Hang on a minute.  I keep losing -- I have lost what she put.  Oh, I have a great advocacy video about access for hard of hearing with captioning needs called "don't leave me out."  So -- to be used as well.  Okay.  So we have a video of "don't leave me out."  I presume it's captioned.  So okay.  That's a possibility.  We need to take a look at that.  Sorry, not ears, eyes.  Excuse me.  Since I know the people, I understood what you were saying, Shadi, because Fernando Bothello is blind, and so I can picture you guys.  You guys, him pushing you in the wheelchair and you saying go left, go right.  I can imagine you were absolutely a riot.  
	What I wanted to say was okay, we've got a whole bunch of ideas, but nothing that ties together yet.  I am going back for all of you to look at Gerry's title again.  And Gerry's title says "1.2 billion reasons for making technology accessible."  None of what we have been talking about deals with that title.  Though Gunela, you said you liked it.  We are talking about something totally different.  So we need another title.  Wouldn't you guys agree with that?  
	Everybody is typing.  Does anybody want to speak?  Lidia says she agrees with me.  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Okay, I will speak.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Go ahead, Gunela.  Give me your title, Gunela.  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Okay.  I agree that we have been talking around about different ideas, and such valuable and useful.  And then we need the last half an hour to bring it together.  And maybe if people are happy with the idea of using country case studies in regard to what a certain country has done in adopting, say, national Web accessibility guidelines, there could be adopting the Marrakesh Treaty, et cetera, and examples of how they have done this, that brings us to reality for workshop participants.  So that's why I was suggesting having something like "linking international accessibility policy with country case studies."  Now, that's just a suggested title if we want to go ahead with that type of content for the workshop.  We can make the title and -- 
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Gunela, can I stop you?  Can I stop you?  
	>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Yes.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: That is like a subject that if you wrote something about it, it would take you years.  We don't have the manpower to cover it.  This is something that case studies, okay.  The Marrakesh Treaty, now, that would be something that would be Shadi's expertise because he deals with Web accessibility.  However, we just have gotten through talking about doing personal experiences, not about policy and the Marrakesh Treaty.  That's another subject.  I am trying to get you all to focus on one idea.  
	Now, everybody said to me "I like Gerry's title."  Fine.  I thought that's good.  Nobody else gave a title.  Now we have a situation where we are going all -- I am just here to tie you together.  I am not here to tell you what to do.  So we have Gunela's.  You really do go into policy and you want to have a global comparison.  That, to me, it would be so unrealistic to attempt unless we had three hours and we were doing a seminar.  We have 90 minutes.  We have 5 people max.  So the point is that's something that you could develop in something you wanted to talk about, but you cannot start and compare two or three countries and expect that to be adopted by the entire globe.  That's really -- and you don't have the manpower to do the research on who is doing what.  
	What you need to -- I think what people expect us to do -- and this is my opinion, and that's all it is, but this is from doing this for so many years -- people who don't know about accessibility want hope.  People who don't know about accessibility need to understand they might need to include.  People who don't know about accessibilities do want to be entertained and told things where there is hope, like the stories that Shadi has been trying to say.  And what can the Internet Governance Forum do to help support inclusion for persons with disabilities?  That's what I see our job as.  
	So we are talking about including or how we can include.  Comparing policies, Gunela, we can do that till the cows come home, but that doesn't change anything.  That just says what's there.  What isn't there.  And we don't have the manpower.  Can you narrow that down for me, where it's doable?  And I want you to think for five minutes before I come back to you on that.  
	Now, the thing is, what I wanted to say -- hands up.  Okay.  Shadi, you want to say something?  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Yeah, and this is just a wild idea, but I am just wondering if through the examples of specific people, I think, for example, if Gerry Ellis and -- knowing Gerry, I know he is probably very willing to speak about his stories as well.  And that would kind of be the lead-in to what actually a policy like the UNCRPD means, like the Marrakesh Treaty, like these global standards, what that actually means in practice and what the IGF can contribute.  So it's basically using the personal story to actually get to the -- to exemplify a policy in practice and what it actually means to a specific person.  Maybe that's the tie-in that could be done?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: You may have cracked it.  You may have cracked it.  Getting accessibility -- I am writing this down.  Accessibility policy in practice and what it means to person with disabilities.  Now, if I take -- we are going to have to have another call because I don't know how I am going to tie this all together when you all leave the line.  Getting an accessibility policy in practice and what it means to persons with disabilities to -- to what?  Help, guys.  It's a good title, but it's not quite grammatically correct.  And what it means to the 1.2 billion?  But then we are aware from anybody could be -- have an accessibility problem.  Speak, people.  I am just -- because Lidia liked the -- a good title from Shadi, even though I didn't probably -- Internet -- Gunela says international accessibility policy into practice.  You're back -- that's not -- why don't you say -- I've got an idea.  That's getting closer, Gunela.  Let's see if we can do this with yours.  International accessibility policy into practice and what it means to persons with disabilities.  You've got to hook it up to the person, not just have policy.  Policy is dry.  What do you think?  We want the people in there.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Can I -- sorry to jump in.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Yes, Shadi, go.  Yeah.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Can I just say this?  I still really like the 1.2 billion reasons for making technology accessible.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I do too.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: And I still think it's relevant because that's the title or that's the hook that these are the people impacted by these policies and -- so I am not sure we need to have policy or mainstream in the title.  I think many sessions have that already.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  All right.  
	>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: But we are taking here the user, the person angle.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  I am going ask a question of all of you who are on the line.  Gerry's title, if you want to stick with that -- I mean, technology is up my street.  I am perfectly happy with that.  If you want to stick with that, you must tie that in to the workshop proposal that you want to do.  And I am going to give you all a homework assignment that's due on Monday.  I want you to write me your abstract on how you -- because Gunela, you go to policy and you go to how that helps people and everything else, and you like comparing the different things, and this is very valuable information.  It's just that I think you have bitten off something that's enormous.  But if you can condense it down into something, into an abstract for me, you can talk about whatever you want, and tie it into that title, that will work.  The same thing applies to you, Shadi.  You basically -- I don't want to lose your personal story, though, and I think it's important that people see you.  Because I told you the story very quickly about some guy saying, well, Shadi can talk about what's being in a wheelchair.  And I said he's already mainstreamed.  He does Web accessibility.  And the guy looked at me as if I was crazy.  So the point is you are an interesting kettle of fish, you are.  So I am not too sure what you want to do.  
	I haven't heard from Anthony.  Is he just sitting there listening?  Anthony, where are you?  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: I am right here listening and taking it all in.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Well, you have a he got to contribute or you'll get a smack.  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: I was planning on following up after the meeting, but if you have anything specific that you need right now, I think -- one of the areas that we could address is issues related to cognitive and psychosocial disabilities.  I haven't heard that come up in the conversation yet, and I think that's a salient issue to address.  
	A lot of the issues around implementing policy into practice are really relevant, and I think that we could certainly take the approach of looking at the CRPD as kind of a broad system of norms and principles, and then using these individual life experiences to kind of illustrate how those norms get implemented in practice.  So I think this is a really good approach.  We don't necessarily have to go and do a 170 country survey of policy.  We can simply talk from our own lived experiences and then also how that relates to the UN Convention.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  That's a good idea.  Now, the thing is what I -- I've got stuff I am going to read, so it goes in the captioning.  Lidia liked that sort of comment that she thought might be a good title from Shadi.  An even better angle she said.  It needs to be international so we can access familiar access no matter where we are.  Gunela says I condensed it in the ISOC accessibility toolkit.  Well, we don't have time to read this toolkit.  What I want from you, Gunela, is I want your workshop presentation abstract and title.  Listen, everybody can do what they want as long as we can tie it together and we can get it to the deadline on the 25th.  That's what we have to do.  And Shadi -- Shadi, you just do what you think.  And the person -- everybody -- Judith says I like the is.  Judith Hellerstein, I like the idea of personal stories as a hook to get people in.  And Shadi says excellent topic, Anthony.  Judith says I could not hear Anthony's title.  Can you repeat it?  Anthony, did you have a title?  And Gunela says yes, okay, she's going to give me an abstract.  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: Sure.  So I guess the title would be implementing the CRPD in practice, something along those lines.  But I know that's not too sexy, so I love Gerry's suggestion just because it really -- it resonates very clearly.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: All right.  Let me ask you all this.  If everybody is happy with Gerry's title, let's decide on Gerry's title.  And do that.  But it doesn't take into account that anybody could be a person with a disability through age or anything like that.  And that somehow, if we could find a way to put that in, our workshop could be contributed on that level.  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: Andrea, if I could just chime in here, this is Anthony.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Yes.  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: I think there's two kind of perspectives on this issue.  One is to say, like you kind of mentioned earlier, that okay, this is about 7.6 billion people, not just about 1.2 billion, but I think there's also something to be said for kind of acknowledging the 1.2 billion people that have the lived experience of being a person with a disability.  You are right in recognizing that anyone could be disabled at any point in time, but I also feel it's kind of appropriate to talk specifically about disability in this context and to keep that 1.2 billion.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  And what I want to ask all of you, we decide on at least the title right this minute.  Is that going to be our title?  And if I don't hear a thing, silence is acceptance.  
	Great.  Okay.  We have a title!  Okay.  Eleonora is there, so she knows that that's going to be our title.  Okay.  
	So now, would everybody do me a big favor, and I want everybody to commit -- depending upon funding and where you are, we worry about these things later.  We always manage to get it together.  So don't worry about money at the moment.  I don't know if I can get everybody funding.  Don't ask me.  But we've managed to be there all the time, so let's just deal with what we are going to do.  All of you who are on this call, do you want to participate and present at the IGF DCAD workshop, which now has the title of -- where is it?  I am reading it now -- "1.2 billion reasons for making technology accessible."  Because we have to remember this is the Internet Governance Forum.  Okay?  And it deals with governance, so we can deal with the policy within that.  
	Now, Gunela, are you going to do a presentation?  Yes.  Okay.  
	Who else wants to do one?  Speak.  Shadi?  
	Gunela says yes.  Yes from Anthony.  Yes from Lidia.  Yes from Ashwini.  Okay.  And -- okay.  We've got one, two, three, four, Shadi is typing.  Okay.  And Judith said happy to help out.  Judith, you will be my trusty sidekick at the top of the table, as usual, please.  Who helps me with everything.  
	Okay.  Unless you would like to give a presentation of your own.  Okay.  I don't think it matters, Shadi, at this point.  We have to produce something for the 25th.  As I've always said, worry about the details later.  If there is no funding, nobody is going to think you are a terrible guy if you can't go.  But I have to have your commitment in principle that you -- if all goes well -- will do a thing.  So just say yes and be a good boy.  Okay?  Shadi is laughing.  Thank God for that.  And Shadi said yes, ma'am.  That's what I like.  Okay.  I think we've got our participants.  We've got our participants.  We've got our title.  We can adjust people and things when I get the abstracts.  We will go through a final selection process of everything later, but in order that we write something, we've got to come up with a paragraph that will deal with personal experiences, accessibility to technology, and what else can we put in this paragraph?  
	Members of the DCAD will give presentations in a roundtable format.  I don't have to write it down.  It's in the captionings.  That will include personal experiences -- come on, guys.  Help me.  I see implementing CRPD.  Okay.  Judith, that's okay.  If you are not sure you are going to be there, that's fine.  Judy said she may not be there if it conflicts with Plenipot.  That is a possibility.  Lidia, I will do my homework by Monday.  Lidia is going to write something for us.  Okay.  And Anthony said implementing the CRPD.  Is that -- are we adding that to something, Anthony?  Oh, 1.2 reasons for making technology accessible, and you want to add implementing the CRPD?  Is that what you said?  Speak, Anthony.  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: Sorry, Andrea.  My microphone was muted.  No, I was just suggesting it as part of the abstract.  I think the title is good as it is.  I don't think we should necessarily, you know go down that road.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: So implementing the CRPD.  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: Would be part of the abstract.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  
	The European Accessibility Act, that is something that I think Gunela might want to take note of or you take note of because you are dealing with the -- and that's part of personal experience, Lidia.  The European Accessibility Act.  IGF is a global, and Judith likes the title.  So Judith can think of something I could present upon.  
	What I have to do is can everybody do homework for me and write me something?  I don't care what it is because we are going around in circles.  We still have some time.  You can verbalize your thoughts here.  It's going into the captioning.  And Kaoru and I will be working midweek next week.  Kaoru, when are you back?  
	>> KAORU MIZUNO: I will be here Wednesday.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: You will be where?  
	>> KAORU MIZUNO: Here on Wednesday.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Wednesday.  So Wednesday we go to work on that.  So you have till Tuesday night whatever time you are in to send your stuff so Kaoru can have it Wednesday morning.  Okay?  And that's okay, Lidia.  You've got your instructions.  Lidia has to leave now.  Thank you.  Lidia is typing.  I am going to see what she is going to say.  
	Anthony, will you focus, please, on your wonderful suggestion of the cognitive disability, please, because you brought that up.  And we have seen that your students are involved in that.  
	>> ANTHONY GIANNOUMIS: Yes, Andrea, I am happy to provide a first-person account as well as kind of an overall understanding for the issues.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: That's good.  So we've got -- and also, I want Ashwini to write me something a little clearer than what he has been sending me because I am afraid if I don't understand it other people are going to have difficulty.  You were talking about something that I didn't fully understand.  So I need you to write, and we are going to -- everybody can look at what everybody else has written, and then we will do a final thing, and everybody start thinking about the title of their own individual presentation.  We are going to do the roundtable.  Everybody has agreed that it should be roundtable.  Silence is acceptance.  Right.  So that means everybody says a brief whatever it is for so long.  We have 90 minutes.  And that we open the floor and we talk to the audience.  That's what everybody wants to do.  
	>> Yes, sorry to jump in.  Shabbir has wanted to jump in for a while.  
	>> MUHAMMAD SHABBIR:  Yes, can everyone here me?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Yes, we can.  
	>> MUHAMMAD SHABBIR: Thank God.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I don't see you on the list.  
	>> MUHAMMAD SHABBIR: Sorry, Andrea?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Go ahead.  
	>> MUHAMMAD SHABBIR:  Thank you.  I have listened to the proposals.  I think we have (?) making technology accessible if I heard it right.  So my suggestion would be to have an overarching presentation that would talk about (?) accessibility.  We can title, a subtitle that could be bridging the digital divide from an accessibility perspective so that our audience sitting at the table would know that what kind of case studies, what are the accessibility issues, and what kind of case studies, personal or country, whatever people would be talking about, they are coming next.  That is my suggestion.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  Now, just in case it was difficult for everyone to hear, I am going to -- the captioner has got it.  I am going to read it.  Shabbir said:  I have listened to the proposals.  I think we have a -- question mark because the captioner missed it -- making technology accessible if I heard it right.  So my suggestion would be to have an overarching presentation that would talk about -- question mark, the captioner missed it -- accessibility.  We can title a subtitle that could be bridging the digital divide from an accessibility perspective so that our audience sitting at the table would know what kind of case studies, what are the accessibility issues, and what kinds of case studies, personal, country, whatever people would be talking about, they are coming next.  That is my suggestion.  
	So I've read this out.  I am not sure I've got it correctly.  Shabbir, you kind of are -- I was going to say you and Gunela are probably pretty good -- are probably linked in the way you are viewing this.  It seems to me.  Shabbir, what would you like?  
	>> MUHAMMAD SHABBIR:  Yes, it seems like both the proposals are linked, but I want to keep it a mix.  It's the whole workshop or the roundtable should neither be the presentation and nor it should totally consist of the case study, so one-hour, I think, presentation talking about accessibility, and then the case studies.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  Let me make sure we got this right.  
	>> MUHAMMAD SHABBIR:  Did you get me?  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: I am hearing you.  The captioner is hearing you.  But you are difficult to understand, and it's not you; it's the technology.  So I am going to read this out.  
	It seems like both proposals are linked, but I want to keep it a mix.  It is the whole workshop or the roundtable should neither be the presentation and nor it should totally consist of case study.  So one hour, I think, presentation about talking about accessibility, then the case studies.  
	I am not going to actually, Shabbir, worry about the order of how we do that.  I am mainly interested today in content.  What I want you to do is give me a few lines, please, over the weekend by the time we have -- and I am sorry, I didn't see your name anywhere here.  You did a -- you were called, and next time, Stephan, if anybody who is on remote and it's not on the thing, you jump in there sooner than you did because I had no idea he wanted the floor.  So I am terribly sorry because I am not at the ITU.  I am in England.  And I am looking at a screen that doesn't give me everything.  So I am sorry you had to wait.  
	I think the best thing to do -- and Gunela is typing, so I don't know if I should wait.  Okay.  Gunela said support Mohammad Shabbir.  I agree because you guys are on the same wavelength.  
	Okay.  Here is your homework.  I will repeat it again.  We've got four minutes.  
	Everybody who has agreed -- and Shabbir, you are going to give a presentation; right?  
	>> MUHAMMAD SHABBIR: Right.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay.  We have a list of presenters.  We are going to work on the remote, and we've got Gerry as well.  So if it's a roundtable, it would be a very short introduction, I think, of everybody, who they are, what they are doing, how they are related to accessibility, and then we have an open discussion as a roundtable.  And it is the audience in the last half hour -- we have 90 minutes.  So it's amongst the people there talking as an open roundtable.  We've never done this before.  Everybody thinks we have, but we haven't.  And then we open the floor to the audience.  Is that how we want to do it?  Because we have to have some control over what we present, so the first hour, as Shabbir has suggested, is us, whoever we are, and I will be the band leader tapping you and trying to keep some control as I do now.  Then what we do is we open the floor to the audience.  
	So we are going to -- Eleonora, we are going to need a good room if we are going to do this correctly.  We can't have a room like we had last time, which was like in the basement.  No good.  We need good light for people to lipread.  We need good room for people so we can sit in a semicircle so everybody can see themselves.  And we need to have the audience in a position where they can communicate with us.  So I will also put that in the paragraph.  
	So whatever you want me to include, I will.  The rough draft we will get ready for you to okay and make a comment on.  Remember, we've got to get this done by the 25th.  And that is Friday of next week.  So we don't have a lot of time.  So if -- send your stuff in as early as possible, and we will work on it on Wednesday, send it out Wednesday night.  You comment on it that evening, get it back to us on the 24th, and we'll clean it up and then we'll go with that.  Okay?  And that gets sent to IGF on the 25th.  That's next week.  Are we all up for that?  
	Silence is golden.  Okay.  So I am expecting you to work over the weekend and come up -- and I only want a paragraph.  And it has to relate to the title.  Okay?  Can we do that?  
	Now, let me see, has anybody said anything that I need to read?  
	Judith, I've got your time table.  You can have it by Tuesday, that's fine.  Ashwini: I will send a detailed research article.  No, I don't want a detailed research article.  I don't have time to read it.  I want you to do what I have asked, and that is to give a paragraph about how this is going to impact accessibility.  Because I have looked at your work.  I do not have time to read your article, research article.  
	Judith says yes, roundtable.  Judith says he was talking about -- who was talking about Mohammad Shabbir?  Oh, I've got you.  All right.  Fair enough.  You are going to send it to Muhammad.  Judith, welcome to the call, hoping you will be on.  That's what's being said by Judith to Shabbir.  She is happy that you are on the call.  Gunela Astbrink supports Muhammad Shabbir.  Gunela, there is a maximum of 6 people for a roundtable?  A roundtable is pretty loose.  It's not like giving a complete presentation where you take the floor with PowerPoints.  It is not like that.  It is an Open Forum.  It doesn't matter.  And Anthony, you want a paragraph from each speaker?  It's going to be condensed into one page of what we are going to do.  Okay?  And it's not -- I want a paragraph from each speaker, and I will take something from everybody and Kaoru and I will condense it down.  And Ashwini says yes, sure.  And I would send across a paragraph of accessibility research.  Ashwini, we don't actually want to deal with research unless it's applicable to inclusion.  So be careful.  I know you have done a huge paper and you gave me some information, and I am afraid it was really difficult for me to understand.  The point of IGF and the DCAD is inclusion of persons with disabilities in the technological age and Internet Governance.  That's what this is about.  So I hope you will focus on that.  And sorry, I have to drop off the call.  Thanks, all, it was really nice being with you.  Do not hesitate to reach out to the IGF Secretariat with any questions. 
Happy weekend.  Thank you, Eleonora.  
	So all right.  Is everybody okay and clear on what they are going to do, and do you have any questions before we have to cut?  
	Okay.  Thank you all for taking the time to spend an hour and a half helping me get it together so we can all do this.  And we will keep you informed, and you will have something to look at by Wednesday evening.  Is that okay with you, Kaoru?  
	>> KAORU MIZUNO: Yes.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Right.  Okay.  And we will give you all a copy of the captioning as soon as we get it.  Is that okay?  And we are going to get it today, I think.  Is that right, Heather?  Heather, we are going to get the captioning today?  I hope so.  Captioner is saying yes.  Thank you, Heather, very, very much.  Thank you, Stephan, for being our remote moderator.  Thank you very much, Kaoru, for your organization in getting that.  Thank you, everyone, for attending and all the energy that you have put into this.  
	Okay.  All right.  No more words.  We are saying good-bye, and we'll do the best we can.  We've got to make that deadline of next week Friday.  Okay.  Bye for now.  Have a good weekend!  Do your homework!  
	>> Bye-bye.  Thank you.  
	>> ANDREA SAKS: Bye-bye.  
	
	(End of call, 8:35 a.m. CT.) 

	
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This text, document, or file is based on live transcription.   Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART), captioning, and/or live transcription are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.  This text, document, or file is not to be distributed or used in any way that may violate copyright law.
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