RAW FILE

ITU-R
JUNE 7, 2019
16:00 PM CEST
ITU WORKSHOP ON “FUTURE OF TV FOR EUROPE” 

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This text, document, or file is based on live transcription.  Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART), captioning, and/or live transcription are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.  This text, document, or file is not to be distributed or used in any way that may violate copyright law.

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>> Thank you.
>> Thank you for that very complete presentation and thank you for that and it was very interesting presentation and now I would like to have the Chief of the Radio System Institute in Germany.  Chefs working on arrangement to community and leading currently the radio system department in IFD ‑‑ so the floor is yours.
>> Okay.  Good afternoon.  Thank you for the introduction.  Okay.  Who doesn't know about IST?  Okay, just a few people.  Okay.  IST is in Germany and also Austria and my main mission is to ‑‑ it's like in Germany and ‑‑ the production facility ‑‑ (audio is muffled) ‑‑ and they were making them different topics and one of these is the 5G and my colleagues will focus on traditional broadcast assistance related to if they have for developed cost.
So the question is, what approach is related to clusters, and I also had a really nice presentation to say what's in the future.
You see on the chart from this chart you see, all what limit content and the younger generations that watch video in content, and focused, this one is between 14 to 29 people and 61 person ‑‑ 61.9% are watching content.
And I also heard from the presentation the most important advice for regional, because it's just about 50 years old and is the consumer integration and performed by laptop and smartphone and PC and tablet.
So, then we see from those two slides the user behavior and expectation change measurably and also we can demand usage increasing solution to global and that's why we need to bring to track the simulation to our content, for example on the smartphones, maybe it could be 5G comes to in the future there ‑‑ and a lot of time ‑‑ what are to continue earlier and also work on the documentation and regulation and also manage the content and also access completely ‑‑ to uses.
So explain the work on national and international research projects and this also heard accessibility to immersive content and give to predicted solution in 5G and I want to introduce you maybe for this side and now you have also slide to resolutions and also what they did with the old IP.
Okay, and from today pronled the project, it's the efficient delivery of content to mobile devices, if it you have the power ‑‑ how can I mute this one ‑‑ oh, that one.  Sorry.
Okay.  It's fine.  Okay, sorry for the interruption.  So, how can we bring our content on this and so that a project experiment in 2017 and mainly projected to research and implement and it's introduced ‑‑ it would be ‑‑ specification for large‑area transmission of media content and this project is by (?) Research Foundation and of this year and under the lead them partners are working on the project, and he was clear to provide ‑‑ of ENS and capturing into ‑‑ the start is responsible for the transmitting side.
They provided us two big transmitters ‑‑ (Speaking off mic).  (audio very muffled).
So enhanced to these broadcast computing, but end to end it's all the same, the meaning is the same.
So the ‑‑ 2017, they concentrate broadcaster's requirements which means how can we be in our content and be in that Artificial Intelligence introducing multiple ‑‑ for the matrix which means the distance and they also produce dedicated error transmission which means 70% of the larger is just for the broadcasters' mission and then also topic on the mode which permits the use without connecting to the station which means they don't think they have the content on the smartphone and this is one of the if it is apparently transmitted to sub‑acquisition transform which is ‑‑
(muffled audio).
And they can have all of those different communications and currency, so this one is here.  And this one which is 16 ‑‑ this is just normally ‑‑ so now you see on the left side the way to understand is that in Germany on the really big mountain, if I take it to a meter at the end to and we use just by transmitting ‑‑ if there is a big to one area.
And polar sized and on the right side, it's from when you understand with the ‑‑ and the following 80 meter and then 250 meter ‑‑ 245 ‑‑ the polarization is ‑‑ circle the polarization for the transmitter.
These two transmitters ‑‑ determine 56 is it ‑‑ (captioner cannot distinguish the numbers).
Normally option to have 8.5 and it transmitted with the power, and the relation ‑‑ so the charts implemented and translated and you see transmittedded to the system, transmitted to ‑‑ and they don't have any ‑‑ it will be 14 and that's why for the research goes to use a system design solution.
And there were delivered and but it wasn't at the ‑‑ of the transmitter.  And now you see also some pictures here from CapTel this morning, it's nights a site and search perfect work, it's related to the work life and you see representations of (?) ‑‑
So, my work is we need to measurements for ‑‑ you see ‑‑ it's in dark, it's just a computer, you have signal capturing ‑‑
So what is differently, let me summarize.
(audio very muffled).
And from the project is actually the contributor to the investigation as typically is part of our plan, and it has been our content on this range and also we need to define the requirements as a business model and I put it in ‑‑ my colleague ‑‑ (Speaking off mic).
So another project is also I wish to project, it's during with 5G project which is newly related broadcast and to put it up ‑‑ and it's designed with a global approach ‑‑
The good one is just ‑‑ and no matter to introduce at the moment and that's why we created this project for multiple broadcast functionality ‑‑ so now in the meantime the future ‑‑ 60 and use the technical report and actually based on broadcasters (?) and both have the companies.  Also this name of communities started you see just under to fill the gap in solutions to close the gap.
This introduces few parameters from the ‑‑ introducing the precise instance.  You can have motion‑like collaborate and another one is you can often to introduce 100 microsecond and also this has what ‑‑ also this synchronization framework.
Okay.  I conclude now my presentation.  If broadcast can be everyday solution the combinations can ‑‑ the technology 5G broadcast, it is low cost and nationwide to mobile usage and Germany is in really ‑‑ for high tower introducing to the broadcast and broadcasters are interested in the activity in our work, and what are needed is now, we need to have also further technical evaluation in the refinements, and we need to carry out extensive field tests, measurements, maybe in Germany and also in various countries, and we need to work with also regulation and we need to preserve the broadcasting spectrum.  Thank you for your attention.
(audio very muffled.  Not understandable) (audio feedback muffled).
He has more than three years of experience in communication networks and since 2012 he has specialized in spectrum policy and he's working with spectrum for the broadcasting industry, so Jean‑Pierre, the floor is yours.
>> Thank you, in this one‑to‑one communication, the revision in communities, Europe, and the world together one great show after another, and if you have any doubt, look at the success of the recent Euro vision sun contest where just in the few hours from now the kickoff of the come's football cup, the worldwide football cup in France.
Content, but the distributions that make this miracle possible should not be forgetten.  And in Europe the digital revolution platform, the DTP, a trailer association for broadcasters and operators and my message will be two‑fold.  DTT is a great European success, and it is evolving and innovating to prepare for the next decade and beyond.
Can I have the pointer, please?
So first, DTT as a great success, and of course it depends on how you define it, but I think in the spiritual measure is that the attrition of the technology in Europe DTT has grown from 5% in 2005 to 43% now and very strong growth at the same time as we're seeing all the changes in the environment evolves.  215 million viewers and 2,000 national regional channels and globally business, low‑cost, accessible providing reliability and pluralism.  It's also related to platform which brings very strong advantages because as a key input, DTT uses spectrum which is a public resource, and so in essence the use of the spectrum, states are capable to put obligations to DTT operators, which allow to pursue cultural, industrial policy.
And indeed, DTT is one of the European audio visual model.  And 18% of the content is provide world disasters and all of this content is not consumed on DTT, but DTT is somehow the stronghold for the broadcasters and it secures also European values among which pluralism, public service, inclusivity, we've talked about accessibility and all of that, and those were elements which were introduced very early on the television.
It also has very strong synergies with other very important elements of the creative sectors, so making special events system and that radio, and TMSC and life performance shared frequencies with DTT and shared infrastructure.
So we have two elements, popularity and a key economic and cultural role and perhaps you don't know that, but creative and cultural industry is the furthest largest employer in Europe, so these are two elements which explain that DTT is a very important political priority in Europe.
And indeed, access to spectrum, which is a key input, this one has been said previously very well by Elena, is supported by long‑term European political choice, and the decision which was taken in 2017 by the European Parliament and Council secures the success to where UHS spectrum for DTT until at least 2030 and with a vision that this spectrum will be for audio/visual distribution for some future.
While at the same time normalizes the band for mobile.
This popularity, this key economic quorum and key political support are very strong assets.  We have a clear visibility to prepare the future and this will be my second ‑‑ the second part of this presentation.
The first part of preparing the future is to actually carry out the 700 megahertz clearance project and it looks like a technical project and indeed the picture is one of ingenius, but it's also political project or regulatory project this morning, and we have a presentation on the roadmaps followed by Hungry and Chile and how it was also implemented in France, and this is clearly a very important project, so millions ininvested in countries to carry out this in a very tight deadline before 2020, 2022 in some country, and with a key objective to minimize the impact of viewers because DTT is such a large penetration.
The second evolution for the next decade is that while we are rearranging, I would say, the frequencies, the show must go on and as Sebastian said this morning, we almost wonder what the use and wants are in the end so we have to adapt to users' expectations which are increasing very quickly.
So we do that at the same time that we have all make that in 3D elections providing even larger coverage or increasing the range of television programs available on the platform.  This has been done, for instance, in Germany with great success.  We improve the picture quality and the sound, so basically we improve the transmission format and we address also a key element, which is the increasing demand for interactivity that where we're DTT and that we ask DTT is not the nature of an interactive platform, but interactivity can be introduced in several ways and we are very clear examples this morning about it and iBake television and there are many other ways to innovate in that direction to provide very simple but very effective interactivity.
This creates somehow the digital map and part of it is through via the SQNs and part of it is driven by the broadcaster's expectation and the consumer behavior and, for instance, the second integration that was presented for France is really, and not to improve the spectrum efficiencies because this is already done, but it's an attempt to make the platform ready for the next 10 years in France, and in the meantime, there are some regulatory discussions on the pursuit of the access to spectrum in the coming years and I explained that very much.
All of these elements are to create the DTT roadmap and as a feature, new technologies such as presented with the 5G broadcast which also comes into also the global reflections.
How this will evolve in the future, our view although it is very difficult to predict the future and I would not try to be the next one that Peter quotes, (Laughing), totally misinterpreting the future, but our view is as long as DTT provides excellent service it will remain strong and popular in most countries for a predictable future.
Of course, there will be other platforms and of course there are challenges and of course there are many changes that change, but as we are ready to evolve and to introduce what the consumer wants when keeping our strong points, we think we will ‑‑
One last thing the story goes on and presenting the number of people worldwide which are where the DTT is launched, and a caveat is that it doesn't represent the population in which can actually receive the DTT, but you can see the function as and it's probably not very visible but in the slides there you can see after 2016 that really as a result of the decision taken in 2015, securing the spectrum for the long term, which is kind of adapting in some countries such as African states and Middle East who launched DTT projects.
In conclusion, DTT is a European success story.  It has a clear spectrum and regulatory scenario, until at least 2030, and it's constantly innovating to improve the user experience.
Of course, it requires regulatory stability, especially access for the 470, (?) megahertz band which is key, and I think many of the works ongoing at ITU and many of the ITU events, especially will contribute to that.  Thank you very much.
(Applause).
>> Thank you, Jean‑Pierre and I didn't need to warn you.  Slept.  The next speaker of the section is Eric Wang and he will speak about the new ITP, SG9 standard initiatives for relevant service delivery.  He's in Study Group 9 and leading the work on the integrated cable TV network platform and he has also a PhD, so Mr. Wang, the floor is yours.
>> I thank you, Istavan.  Good afternoon, it's my pleasure to introduce our SG9 work, standardization work activities in the service and development, and so as Study Group 9 is focusing on TV and video standardization activities, and so actually looking back to the history, we see that indeed the video service or the TV service is one of the most important driven forces to drive the network advance to more experience and more advanced information accessibility.
So we see that in the history, a long time ago, we see that we watched the analogue TV and then the digital TV and then we have now 4ATV outside of this room there is some demo and then also we're considering the virtual reality in the coming future.
So also, you know, corresponding to the service migration evolving, we are associated in the network technologies are also evolving from ports, ADSR, Doc SIS to 3.1 or so to the future of G Pong, 10G Pong and 50G Pong and so we think that the network, there are some very important characteristics when there is the experience and we are targeting for the automated experience and also the other one is the massive ‑‑ to the massive or the faster the bed.
Also the full connection, the full fiber connection, massive connection.
So we also do some prediction here in the arrow and we think that there would be a smart society, and there are some discussion about prediction this morning and for sure we didn't put any data on this arrow.
So this is our overview of the video service advancing and also the corresponding network advancing.
So to go back to the Study Group 9, we also do a lot of work on this relay services, so for we are in Question 9 and we are now doing this Cloud VR Technology and so you are seeing on the left‑hand side, we are considering ‑‑ we are specifying a technology that can use the Legacy network to provide the more advanced services like 360 degree services, so based on this service side of processing or image processing signal or something like that.
And then also on the right‑hand side, in Question 9 is also doing some work on the augmented reality, so there is some interactive services, TV services.
So besides being in Study Group 9, it's also doing this Cloud DVR standardization activity, so from the platforms' perspective, we think there is actually a lot of functionalities and requirements from the network perspective, and you can see on the left‑hand side there is some end‑to‑end overview architecture of this VR delivery, so some points, some sites and some functions.
So the target is to leverage all of the overall experience through the most advanced technology like 4K, 8K, VR, 360‑degree videos and in the future definitely there will be some even more fancy video services.
So also, from the platform perspective, the Question 9 is also embrace the artificial intelligence for the premium experience and you can see that there are some architecture of this platform including this artificial intelligence functionalities.  It is based on the data and also using the data for management to control.
So, with the intelligence, we are considering that this platform can boost various kinds of urgency, so there are some statistics about the current network, including the TV network and the appropriate network.  There are some analysis for the troubleshooting so we can see that there was this preliminary platform and we can post an efficiency based on this and may show it in the analytics and so with this, the creation and maintenance and the energy and resource can all be boosted to a very good spec.
So not only in Study Group 9, we specified the platforms, the Smart Platform, but also we are doing specifications on residential gateway, so Question 6, we are specifying the Smart Gateway based on this premium cable network platform.  It targets to specify the residential gateways, which can not only provide video service but also can provide full connected home, which is a very advanced technology, including those IoT services.
You can see on the left‑hand side, there is a Smart Gateway architecture, including a lot of IoT services, IoT functionalities like bluetooth, Zway, a lot of things, and also from the management perspective, from the kind of configuration perspective, there is also a project that's ongoing to specify this automatic control for the setup box based on some management goals like TR069, and base to help target operators and also final customers.
And so not only the Smart Platform, the Smart Residential Gateway, Study Group 9 is also doing the network, and so actually the network is also a standard in our Study Group 9, and so in Question 7, we are now starting a new project, a new work item on this unified optical in the cabling network, so targeting to a specified and unified framework, which can boost part of the cable access and optical access for the future.
Also, Question 7, we are also describing new technology which adds a one‑way IP based media broadcast system to the existing bidirectional CIT networks called IPBP and so this technology is also deployed in China, I this think, for a wide deployment.
So that's the basically the network, the smart platform, the smart residential gateway, and started in Study Group 9, the science of Study Group 9 is also doing some other work like in Question 1, Question 7, these two questions are specifying these gigabit network including the 5G and (?), and also just mentioned that Question 2 is also specifying the security recommendations which is now days very important from the overall perspective.
Also, I mentioned by this morning that Question 5 is specifying this TVOS operating system on recommendations.
And so finally, we are considering a Study Group 9 is doing the video, doing the TV, and we can see that in the future there will be a Cloud VI, even maybe not only to a customer but to home but also to business, so Study Group 9 is embracing those extreme experience TV and media services and also we helped the whole human society to involve to the first era so there will be a mass implement in experience and full fiber connection and for the service, we have the full immersive living experience service.  Thank you.
(Applause).
(audio muffled) (undistinguishable).
   >> ISTAVAN BOZSOKI:  The other on the list is important for the study group 9, is the chairman ‑‑ (audio muffled) ‑‑ the Corporation in Japan and has 20 years of experience in broadcasting in telecommunication and he is the chairman of the Study Group 9 for the period of 2017 and 2020, and I think I may have just one question to both of them, since we finish it with the standard in Study Group 9, so Satoshi, if I can ask you what kind of innovative services are expected for the cable TV?
>> Thank you very much, Istavan, the answer to that realistic, we experience such as HD or digital HD which is already introduced by Eric, and which are normally anticipated by everybody and I'd like to introduce a bit different topic of the Study Group 9.
Study Group 9 is also thinking that the business expansion of cable TV industry is really important, so from that point of view, we just started to develop a new recommendation, which is called cable DTT which is defining the basic requirements and interfaces between cable TV operator and OTT providers.
And so why we start with this work item?  It's that if you take into consideration the current trends, there are several operators already suing the OTT subscription package with some discount and billing integration, so our draft new recommendation, JKOTT is intended to facilitate and accelerate collaboration between the two entities, so we believe that such collaboration should enhance the cable TV operators' business as well as the OTT's business by providing enhanced service experience to customers.  Thank you very much.
   >> ISTAVAN BOZSOKI:  Thank you very much.  If I may ask, Andy, we learned there is a new report on the requests and website that you can find a link to the report and so I just need to know, what are the main areas where the artificial intelligence can be involved in the broadcasting issues?
>> Thank you, and welcome.  Welcome back to the stage again.  I just want to pick up one thing that you said earlier on about more efficient codex, I could just first of all, we do have more efficient codex coming all the time and but every time we half the data rate of the current format we quadruple the size of the image that we send, so we need the next one for 8K and beyond, so it's a never‑ending race, as soon as we get a bigger code we get a bigger picture and this time we added more audio as well and squeezing even harder.
Coming back to what you said and it is related, we're exploring all areas of production and program delivery and program exchange with AI, including in the report there is the idea of AI being used for scheduling, AI being used to pull content out of archives, intelligent searching as well as text to speech, speech to text, and everything we talked about in the access service, and when it comes to production, there are all kinds of (?) and many people don't know what it is in, and intelligent searches are, for example, there is a brief set of BBC 4.1, one of our channels BBC4, they went to 4.1 and allowed an AI algorithm to schedule two days worth of programming and it's a 7:00 p.m. to midnight channel, half‑day channel and it did it quite successfully.  It wasn't that good.  The second day was better than the first day.  If we left it for a couple of weeks, it would probably be better than the scheduler.
So it's ‑‑ we're looking at all areas and we're looking to see how it can help us to deliver content.  We're no longer delivering to one platform.  I don't think any broadcaster now delivers to a single over‑the‑air platform, or do we deliver a single version of content, and in fact for those of you know the program Dr. Who we had 106 versions of one of the episodes which was a 50th anniversary and that is a logistical nightmare and we're using algorithms even now, to make sure that we're compliant with local and national regulations, so any area that you can think of, we're going to explore.
>> Thank you very much.  Maybe in the future it will be that we don't need anybody who is preparing it because it's done by artificial intelligence and adopted by artificial intelligence too.
>> I was going to say as soon as artificial access doing artificial scheduling with artificial scripts, we'll all start to produce television channels for humans.
>> Very good and then you will spectrum for this available.  So now we finish the presentations and I have some questions already but now the floor is yours because I think the best if you are asking this because what you are interested in on their presentations.  Any questions, that is on David, please.
   >> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I wonder if I can ask the two ladies on the panel, they gave to some extent complementary presentations, and the issue is I guess whether 5G broadcast represents the future, and congratulations on all the tests that you've done to show that FEMBMS is a technical candidate, but if I might, I saw two sort of huge barriers ahead of 5G broadcast.
One was it seems to be, and I'm not a expert, but actually sharing the frequency band between DTT and 5G will be by no means an easy task and lots of political dimensions and lots of very long meetings.  Be prepared to work all night.
And the other one is whether you have to persuade the network operators to include the FEMBMS in smartphones, it's a lot of a wish, but bearing in mind that they have not agreed to include DTT to smartphones and perhaps it seems a little unlikely that they would include FEMBMS in smartphones because they don't want the free to air services because they would detract from paying services and that's a normal business sense.
So I just wondered what you thought of these two additional barriers that you didn't have, the difficulties of sharing the frequency band and the difficulty of persuading network operators.  Thank you.
   >> ISTAVAN BOZSOKI:  (Speaking off mic).  I apologize for interrupting, but I think it makes sense, actually because I have a sort of follow‑up question regarding this and it might be answered together, you know, so with your permission?
I wonder what would be your distance spectrum ‑‑ I wonder what would be your comment in the European context, if there is any, maybe there is none, about the recent nonconsummated yet but in the working in the United States in the C Band between major satellite players mostly SES and inter‑‑ to a small extent and the mobile companies that would if FCC agrees, which is still in the work, it's very complex and so on, would create what they call this market solution to the spectrum through 5G requirements and the spectrum requirements for satellite.
In a nutshell, the deal would be that the satellite companies would let them in this case, acting as a mobile operator, to use part of their C‑band which they don't use, in order to expand to major U.S. cities, Detroit and so on.
And there has been debate, and this is something that the FCC has to agree to, but there is some sort of like market solution between the players, and again the question is, do you think something like that might happen in Europe?  Or whether you see it as a good solution or what the story is?
>> Okay.  First, I tried to answer your questions because I know the situation in Germany.  For example, 3.4 to 3.7 gigahertz is now auctioned ‑‑ especially 2 gigahertz and 3.6 is 41 auctioned, but especially in Germany and also Sweden, the 3.7 to 3.8 gigahertz is at 100 megahertz band, has not been auctioned but has been set for the private seconders, for example, private or compass network and for that I think the second of the year, they will start and you need to bring how can you use the frequency concept and we worked this with the broadcasters (?), and I think it's such a good opportunity for them because you have also your own network, it's not someone else's and that's in Germany but also I read in this in the report all around the world they're really complaining against that, and but I think in Germany they decided really good.  Yes.
>> I'm sure that you have something to add.
>> Okay, well finish with this and then I'm going to go back to David's questions.
What you mention as you said is really arduous for the timing, it's arduous discussion only.  Personally, I will think it's a good thing in a sense that it's going to be difficult to share between mobile device and mobile services and the satellite services, so the current solution that they're discussing is that it will free up part of the (?), so additionally if they know they can't share, so part of the C‑band will be free from satellite operations so we will have to move to the upper part of the C‑band and release 100 or 200 still under discussion, that will be used for services, and so there it is an issue and so it's not really a good solution, we have to move, I mean, the satellite will have to move away, so for me it's really a economic solution for the satellite operators in the U.S. that they want to make money with the spectrum.
I doubt that the FCC will allow that because the satellite operators have not paid for this spectrum, so how can they make business with something that they have not paid for?
So I doubt that the FCC will let them do that, but okay maybe I'm wrong.  And I really, I don't think this will happen in Europe.  I discussed with the satellite operators, and they say that really it's focusing on the U.S. discussions, and I don't think that could be possible for the Europe, but of course, as I said this morning, it's very difficult to foresee the future but that's my personal view.
So I don't know if I can go to David's question?
>> Yes, please, maybe ask the question or frequencies ‑‑
(laughter).
>> Of course, yes, you are involving this in this discussions and that is also part (?) and excited and they join but of course, personally it's up to you to decide.
Anyway, coming about a back to David's discussion, the first question was the compatibility with 5G broadcast and DTT.  I fully think there are many things still to be solved from both the technical point of view and regulatory point of view.  Of course, if 5G broadcast is only (?) it means we use the one to many part of the FEMBS or 5G broadcast and then it will be easier to share with DTT.
Of course, still as you said, there are many technical problems to be solved, for example the plan for DTT8 megahertz plan in the version and FBMBMS is 10 or 20 so ‑‑ really a problem on the channeling arrangement and we'll have to find a solution, but this is easier to share the (?) of DTT because they are the same type of signals so they will be easier, but of course if one broadcaster still wants to add the part to the 5G broadcast and they want that in there to the band, that is even more complicated because we interfere to help our broadcasters stations that their stations interfere the uplink in other stations, so that's very difficult to solve and I agree with David that there are still many unknowns.
And but we're still in that, we're trying to see what ‑‑ what could be the solutions, if any.
And the second question was regarding the activation in the mobile smartphones, the FMBMS or 5G broadcast SIM or I agree that this is a big barrier.  We do succeed with D (?) and D82 and will we succeed now, and of course it's easy are because it's more mobile technology, but unless we're trying I think, probably unless we're trying a business model that convince the mobile operators, I think it's going to be difficult again, but we're there, we're trying, we're trying to find solutions and discuss with them.
   >> ISTAVAN BOZSOKI:  Thank you very much, I think we reached the end of the session, so first I ask you to give a round of applause to the speakers.  Thank you for the questions, and I also wish to thank the Secretariat helping us make it possible to run the presentations.  And with that I wish to close the session and I don't know if you are needing to come here and close?  From there?
>> We don't really see foresee much more than that, if not that this was an excellent event and it's proven ‑‑ still those wonderful presentations have been very good today and so I would recommend perhaps to go continue the good discussion in the reception which is kindly provided by Hisilicon so just one more move toward the ITU cafeteria where the gathering will be waiting for us, and again thank you very much.  Thank you, Istavan for this very interesting panel as the last panel.  Thank you to all the speakers and participants here with us.  I recommend just to move to the cafeteria.  Thank you very much.
(Applause).
>> This is the best part of moderating the.
(session completed at 11:14 a.m. CST)

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